Philosophy, Religion, Temporal Anomalies, and the Jackson Street Initiative!
Christian Shephard:
Need I say more? This guy has done quite a bit of shepherding on the show, getting people to where they need to go (maybe like Abaddon?).
Jack Shephard:
Although there doesn’t seem to be a real-life philosopher counterpart for Jack, his last name says a lot about his character. He is the shepherd figure for the survivors of Flight 815. However, Jack once was called "Moses" in the Season 3 finale "Through The Looking Glass" by the first freighter visitor to The Island, Naomi. She makes this reference as Jack leads his people to the radio tower in an effort to contact the freighter and try to have his people rescued. The name "Moses" also ties Jack to Claire's son Aaron, Jack's nephew. In the Bible, Aaron was Moses' brother.
Furthermore, the first name "Jack" has been used for centuries in English stories as an archetype for "hero" (see Jack and the Beanstalk, Jack the Giant Killer, etc.) It also is commonly used as a short form of John in English, perhaps representing the similarities but differences between John Locke and Jack Shephard, both leaders in different ways. According to Wikipedia articles on name origins, some think that Jack derives from the French "Jacques," which comes from "Jacob." This is disputed, but whether true or not, the belief exists and may connect Jack Shephard directly to the Lost character Jacob and also to James "Sawyer" Ford (see James "Sawyer" Ford for more on the James-Jacob connection. So, in various ways, Jack's name ties him to John Locke, Sawyer, and Jacob.
John Locke:
This is the most obvious philosopher counterpart reference and the one that started my search for the connections between character names and real-life people. The philosopher John Locke is most famous for his beliefs that all people natural rights that include the rights to life, liberty, and property. Thomas Jefferson later exchanged "property" for "pursuit of happiness." Philosopher Locke also argued that government by human rulers is limited and when a government fails it must be overthrown by the people. A government fails when it fails to protect natural rights, and a rebellion is justified. Locke also argued that knowledge is derived entirely from direct sensory experience. This idea is part of the idea of empiricism, an idea also supported by the later British philosopher David Hume (for this, see Desmond David Hume). From this idea of learning, Locke argued that children learn best by doing. Locke argued against the old-fashioned notion that children are "little adults" and instead argued that they are very unlike adults in their emotional states, etc. Therefore, they learn best by doing rather than being told or by reading. The philosopher John Locke also lived during the reign of the English King James II in the late 1600s. Locke's theories helped bring about the liberal revolution that forced the Glorious Revolution in which King James II lost his throne and fled the country.
That's a lot, so how does the character John Locke fit into all that? The idea of natural rights is sort of elusive, but we'll just say that character Locke is a pretty fair guy. Character Locke best reflects his philosopher counterpart through the overthrow of Benjamin Linus. Ben had become tyrannical, and Locke's type of leadership offered a more enlightened way (philosopher Locke's ideas gave birth to the historical period of philosophy and science known as the Enlightenment). The Others (the people) realized that Ben had trampled on their natural rights (whatever they consider those to be) and that he must be cast out in favor of Locke.
The philosopher Locke's views on children resonate well with character Locke's relationship with Walt. While Walt's father, Michael Dawson, expects Walt to do as he's told, Locke cultivates a relationship with Walt where he allows the boy to learn for himself (e.g. Locke teaching Walt to throw knives, etc.).
Philosopher Locke's beliefs on empiricism seem to be opposite character Locke's. Character Locke accepts information from dreams and visions. As a "man of faith," character Locke plays foil to Jack Shephard's "man of science."
Aside from the significance of his name, character Locke seems to reflect Jesus Christ. His mother once told him (falsely?) that he was "immaculately conceived." And now, Locke has sacrificed himself (betrayed by the Judas-like Ben Linus) and returned to The Island resurrected.
The name "John" is thought to derive from the Hebrew name "Yochanan," which means "Yahweh is gracious." The name "Jack" is short for John and may connect the character John Locke to Jack Shephard, perhaps representing the similarities but differences between John Locke and Jack Shephard, both leaders in different ways.
Jeremy Bentham (aka John Locke):
Locke used this alias after he left The Island in search of the Oceanic Six. Actually, Charles Widmore gave it to him and pointed out the irony of the name. Because of this, the British philosopher counterpart Jeremy Bentham may tell us more about Widmore than Locke. The philosopher Jeremy Bentham is one of the first proponents of utilitarianism, the idea that actions are validated as long as they serve the majority of people (Spock's catch phrase "The good of the many outweighs the good of the few. Or the one."). At this point, it is unclear who we can associate most closely with Bentham, the character John Locke or Charles Widmore. However, both participated in the quest to return the Oceanic Six to The Island, and instance of looking out for the good of the majority (all those left on The Island, maybe even the world) at the expense of the minority (the Oceanic Six living in the real world).
Interestingly, Jeremy Bentham disputed the philosopher John Locke's idea of natural rights as it was being used for revolution in France and America during his lifetime (late 1700s and early 1800s). Bentham renounced the American Revolution, even authoring an opposing response to the Declaration of Independence. Bentham at first supported the French Revolution, but opposed it after the Jacobins took power in 1792 and continuing using violence to obtain their goals. The Jacobins of the French Revolution are different than the Jacobites of the English Civil War mentioned under the James "Sawyer" Ford listing, but both derived their name from a (Jacobins from the street where they first met, the Rue St. Jacques; Jacobites from the Latin form for (King) James (II), Jacob). Whether or not these Jacob references are tied to the character Jacob from Lost remains to be seen.
Another similarity between the real Jeremy Bentham and the character John Locke may be that Jeremy Bentham requested in his will that his body be preserved in a cabinet (I'm not kidding). The body is on public display at University College London as an "Auto-Icon," although the head was damaged during preservation and a wax head sits atop the corpse now. The damaged head inhabited the cabinet for a while, but numerous college pranks (like stealing it) forced the university to remove and lock it away. Interestingly, the Lost character also had some strange things done to his corpse after his death. We could sort of say that both had their corpses preserved in rather strange ways.
Also, we can relate Bentham to both Charles Widmore and the character John Locke. Bentham was a child prodigy (apparently, he began learning Latin at the age of 3), and this seems to be a prerequisite for becoming the leader of the Others.
James "Sawyer" Ford:
There's a lot to work with when you have three names. Let's first look at the name "Sawyer." James Ford took this nickname from John Locke's father, Anthony Cooper. Cooper spent his life as a con man and sometimes used the alias "Tom Sawyer" because the ladies seemed to like it. James Ford's mom liked it, and Anthony Cooper conned her into giving up the Ford family savings. James Ford's dad killed his wife and then himself after he discovered this bombshell. When Sawyer became a con man himself as an adult, he took the alias "Sawyer."
Sawyer can be connected directly to Tom Sawyer, a character invented by Mark Twain. Twain's character shared many simple character traits with James "Sawyer" Ford. He was a southerner whose parents died at a young age. Like James Ford in the early seasons, Tom Sawyer was sometimes portrayed as selfish and racist. Also, the word "sawyer" defines a person who saws timber as a profession. In Season 1, Sawyer often chopped the firewood for the Flight 815 survivors.
Second, let's look at the last name "Ford." This can be tied loosely to the concept of Fordism. Near the turn of the twentieth century, Henry Ford established the assembly line system for manufacturing cars. This inaugurated a new society based on mass production and consumption. James Ford reflects this attitude in his hoarding of consumer goods on The Island and his interest in living in The Barracks left by the Dharma Initiative. It's a loose connection but a connection nonetheless. Sawyer definitely reflects a hardcore consumer of produced goods.
Third, recent events have shown James "Sawyer" Ford to reflect the biblical character James. If Locke reflects Jesus Christ, then Sawyer reflects Jesus' brother James. Although James' place as Jesus' brother is disputed, it is often accepted that James was the biological son of Mary and Joseph. Paul wrote that James was one of the apostles who saw Jesus after the resurrection.
If Locke represents Christ (a birth foretold, a sacrifice for others, and a resurrection) then Sawyer represents James. Here's the brother connection. Both Locke and Sawyer had their lives ruined by the father figure Anthony Cooper. For Locke, he is a biological father. For Sawyer, he is the metaphorical father for what Sawyer becomes—a con man (like Cooper) driven by a desire for revenge. This connection becomes clear when Sawyer murders Cooper on The Island at the request of Locke. This ended both of their lifelong pain. Now, Sawyer awaits his "brother's" return to The Island much as the biblical James awaited the resurrection of Christ. The philosopher John Locke also lived during the reign of the English King James II in the late 1600s. Locke's theories helped bring about the liberal revolution that forced the Glorious Revolution in which King James II lost his throne and fled the country.
Interestingly, the name "James" derives from the same Hebrew word for "Jacob" ("Ya'akov"). The word means "holds the heel" because Jacob was born grabbing the heel of his brother Esau (see the "Jacob" listing for more on this). As a matter of fact, the English movement to place James II on the throne in the first place was called "Jacobitism" (Jacob being Latin for James). Hmmm...
Katherine (Kate) Anne Austen:
Kate Austen's philosopher counterpart must be Jane Austen, an important English writer in the early 1800s. Jane Austen's novels usually critiqued a society in which women relied on marriage as a means to success in life. Kate's character follows Austen's critique. She refuses to marry or settle down, and unlike women of Jane Austen's time, Kate takes a prominent role in an action-oriented world previously reserved for men.
However, Kate may have several real world counterparts. In the Season 3 episode "Left Behind," Kate meets Sawyer's former girlfriend, Cassi, in a flashback. Kate is using the alias "Lucy." (Interestingly, Jane Austen had a sister named Cassandra.)Why does Kate use this alias? Because Lucy is a saint (patron saint of the blind), and Kate memorized all the names of saints in Sunday school. It's no surprise then that Kate's first and middle names are shared by saints.
"Katherine" means "pure" (although Kate is far from pure) and is derived from an early Christian martyr, St. Katherine. Interestingly, St. Katherine also had marriage issues, refusing to marry anyone who was not her physical and intellectual superior. She apparently dreamed that she was brought to heaven where she married Jesus Christ, symbolic of her conversion to Christianity. When she converted some Roman women to Christianity (including the emperor's wife) she was condemned to death and was killed on a spiked wheel (a torture device eerily similar to the so-called "frozen donkey wheel" from the end of Season 4).
"Anne" means "favor" or "grace" and comes from the Greek "Hannah." In Christian mythology, she is believed to be the mother of the Virgin Mary. She is the patron saint of housewives and women in labor. This is interesting when compared to the above notions of marriage embodied in Kate's other names. Also, she delivered Aaron. She was there when Claire gave birth in a patron saint sort of way. Also, there are the childbearing issues on The Island. And we all know this Island really needs a patron saint of women in labor. Plus, if Kate truly is pregnant with Jack's child as Hailey theorized, there may be more to this connection with St. Anne.
Desmond David Hume:
Desmond has another clear connection to his philosopher counterpart, David Hume, via the duplicated name. David Hume was a Scottish philosopher, historian, economist, and political theorist. He did it all. His beliefs and/or life are reflected directly in Desmond in many different ways.
First, they are both Scottish. But there are many more important connections. Hume argued against the Principle of the Uniformity of Nature, which states that because we know how events have occurred before that we know how they will progress in the future. This relates to Desmond's fight against the universe course correcting (e.g. saving Charlie) and to the statement that the "rules don't apply" to Desmond and that he is "unique." Yet, Hume also believed simultaneously in determinism (things caused by outside forces not related to human will) and free will, and this definitely relates with Desmond's ability to change the future through free will even though the future "can't be changed" according to Faraday and his mother.
Also, philosopher Hume discussed the nature of causality using a story that involved a man stepping off a street corner and being killed by a passing horse-drawn carriage. He discussed different possible outcomes if the man had left home later or if he done this or that differently. In fact, in the Season 4 episode "The Constant," Faraday told Desmond, "I'd be careful stepping into the street if I were you" in direct reference to David Hume's work. Compare this to Desmond who sees flashes of the future in Season 3 and changes those outcomes by acting differently. In the case of Charlie in Season 3 and finding Ms. Hawking in Season 5, Desmond uses free will in a deterministic universe to change fate.
Although this connection may not relate ultimately to Lost, it is worth noting. In real life, David Hume based much of his science and philosophy on the empiricism that can be said to have originated with the philosopher John Locke. Plus, the real David Hume still lives, indicating that Desmond might be immortal himself (OK, that last sentence was fake).
[that's probably the worst summary ever of the philosophies of David Hume, but he's pretty dense and abstract and I'm only doing this because I'm interested in a TV show...]
Penelope Widmore:
Penelope's first name relates directly to The Odyssey. In this ancient epic Odysseus' wife Penelope waits for her husband for ten years as he tries to return from Troy after the Trojan War. Penelope Widmore also waited years for her true love to return after being lost at sea.
Charles Widmore:
The only possible counterpart I can think of relates to the English Civil War. Here's the short version of that event. In 1648, Charles I (the son of King James I; remember the name "James" is derived from "Jacob") was deposed and beheaded. Then, Oliver Cromwell became England's dictator for twelve years until he was deposed and Charles' son, Charles II, became the English king. When Charles II died, his brother James II became king. This could reflect Widmore's loss of The Island to Ben (Cromwell?). See the Jeremy Bentham listing as well.
"Jacob":
The mysterious cabin-dwelling, technology-hating ghost (?) who apparently runs The Island (at least sometimes). Although this seems to be all we currently know about the character Jacob, there is a wealth of possible connections to the biblical character Jacob. Only time will tell how these connections pan out.
First of all, Jacob's grandfather was Abraham, informed by God that he will father God's chosen people and they will live in Israel. God tested Abraham by asking him to sacrifice his son Isaac on Mt. Moriah (This is the name of the wine from the monastery where Desmond unsuccessfully attempted to become a monk. Desmond commented on the story of Abraham and Isaac.), but God told him the sacrifice wasn't necessary, that it only was a test. Isaac (Isaac of Uluru who tried to heal Rose in Australia?) fathered twin boys by his wife Rebekah, Esau and Jacob. The first popped out all hairy like man, and they called him Esau, which means "fully developed." The second came out holding the heel of his brother, and they called him Jacob, which means "holds the heal" or "he who follows." As they grew, Esau was an outdoorsman and a hunter ("not a farmer"?), but Jacob was simple and "a dweller in tents" (or cabins?). When their farmer Isaac was old and near death, Jacob tricks his brother out of his inheritance and ends up as master over his father's possessions.
Jacob eventually flees the wrath of his brother. During his flight, he witnesses a vision of Jacob's Ladder (angels ascending a ladder into heaven) and meets his future wives Leah and Rachel (Juliet's sister is named Rachel and Jacob apparently cured her of cancer himself, according to master liar Ben Linus). When Jacob later returns to his family land, he hears that Esau will attack him with an army. He leaves his family to wait while he goes ahead. Alone, he encounters an angel (or God in some interpretations) and wrestles with him all night with no winner. The angel finally touches Jacob on the hip, which ends the battle and makes Jacob limp from thereafter. The angel (God?) renames him "Israel," meaning "one who has prevailed with God."
Anyway, Esau actually welcomes him back along with his wives and twelve sons (who will become the namesakes of the 12 Tribes of Israel). The twelfth son actually is born on their way to the elderly Isaac's home. The twelfth son, Benjamin, is born before they arrive, and his mother, Rachel, dies in childbirth (just like Ben Linus' mom during his birth).
[FOR THE REST OF THE STORY, SEE BENJAMIN LINUS LISTING BELOW!
Charles "Charlie" Hieronymus Pace:
We get our first connection to a philosopher counterpart with Charlie when Desmond befriends him in an attempt to save Charlie from imminent death. In the Season 3 episode "Flashes Before Your Eyes," Desmond seems to travel back to the early 1990s but with some knowledge of his life after that. After Charles Widmore tells he shouldn't marry Penny because he's a coward and all that, Desmond walks outside to find Charlie playing the guitar on the street for money. On a sign by his guitar case, we see Charlie's full name: Charlie Hieronymus Pace. This is a connection with the painter Hieronymus Bosch.
Hieronymus Bosch was a Dutch painter known for grizzly depictions of his subject matter. As a painter in the 1400s and 1500s, we can sort of call him the rock star of his day and compare him to Charlie in that respect. But his choice of subject matter applies to Charlie's role in Season 3. Many of Bosch's paintings deal with the crucifixion of Christ or his birth. We can look at this as Charlie's wish to sacrifice himself for baby Aaron and to save the rest of his friends. Bosch also deals a lot with Heaven and Hell (Island/real world?), death (Charlie's many possible deaths prevented by Desmond), wasted life (heroin addiction), and the Garden of Eden (The Island?).
The name Charles derives from a German word ("churl") that described a free person who did not belong to the nobility. In a sense, Charlie was a second-tier Island leader below the "nobility" of Jack, Locke, Sawyer, Kate, Sayid, etc. That interpretation probably reaches but, hey, it works, right?
Hugo "Hurley" Reyes:
I think Hugo relates Hurley to French author Victor Hugo, author of Les Miserables, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and Toilers of the Sea. In the first two books/plays, Victor Hugo tackled social injustice. In some ways, we can look at Hurley as the arbiter in the early seasons in that he helped get fair treatment for everyone. The third book discusses a group of shipwrecked survivors on a deserted island. I haven't read it, but a synopsis says that it also deals with the effects of the Industrial Revolution (substitute Dharma Initiative?) on the island while the main character attempts to gain the friendship and approval of his fellow castaways. (Seriously, that 's Hurley and that's what the book synopsis says!) Definitely a tie to Victor Hugo. I don't know if this means anything, but in Spanish "reyes" means "kings."
His nickname may be a nod to another similar show, Twin Peaks, in which two characters had the last name "Hurley."
Danielle Rousseau:
Rousseau's philosopher counterpart might really define the entire series in certain ways. Jean-Jacques Rousseau basically argued that civilization is bad but democratic participation in government can dampen its tendencies to corrupt a person. However, he argued that humans attained their greatest potential for goodness and purity in nature. This idea has been called the theory of the "noble savage" (A lot of people argue over whether or not he actually believed this but most have always thought that he does). Rousseau believed that man in nature will not be corrupted because he has no evil influence but this does not mean that he is essentially good. He is selfish and takes care of his own needs. Danielle really represents that noble savage. She worries about only herself, even so far as to steal a baby. She's not really evil but not really good.
Also, I find an interesting connection to the characters Jack Shephard and John Locke with Jean-Jacques Rousseau's first name, French versions of John and Jack. Danielle's first name is the female version of Daniel, meaning "God is my judge" or "judgement of God." In a way, Danielle Rousseau could be seen as Daniel in the lion's den (the Others/Hostiles), alone with only the judgement of God.
Ana Lucia Cortez:
Her last name possibly refers to the Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés. Cortés arrived in the New World into a land that he perceived to be filled with primitive and hostile people despite the fact that these primitives had not harmed any of his men. Although the Others kidnapped some of the Tailies, they actually didn't hurt anyone, so Ana Lucia's actions sort of reflect the conquistador's actions. Cortés attacked Tenochtitlan just as Ana Lucia killed Goodwin and swore to kill any others. Also, she (like Cortés) killed innocents (Shannon).
Michael Dawson:
Michael Dawson relates to a gold rush town in Alaska's Klondike region in the 1890s. No, just kidding. Not much here. But there are some interesting connections with his first name and the archangel Michael. According to tradition, Michael was the general of the Lord's army. He supposedly cast Satan from Heaven. In the book of Daniel, he is portrayed as Israel's protector, much in the same way that Michael Dawson protected The Island (Israel) from the freighter people (Satan?). I guess he didn't really because he blew most of the "Israelites" up after the mercenaries already got to "Israel," but he tried. That's all I've got with that. Sorry, Michael. You get the short treatment as usual. "You can go now."
Walter "Walt" Lloyd:
He could be linked to either Walt Whitman, Walter Scott, or maybe even Walt Disney if anybody, but God knows how! However, the name Walter comes from two old German words, "wald" and "heri." The first means "rule" and the second means "army, warrior."
Mikhail Bakunin:
This is the patch-eyed Russian who worked at the Flame hatch where the satellite dish was. His philosopher counterpart is easy: Mikhail Bakunin, an anarchist philosopher. I don't know much anarchy he accomplished watching satellite TV but...
Martin Christopher Keamy:
This one's pretty cool and very fitting. A guy named Bob Sassone of the TV Squad blog called him the "Boba Fett of Lost." Nice one, Bob. Nice. First of all, I've heard that his name is an anagram for "karma enmity" (Martin Keamy), meaning that he is opposed or hostile to karma, a prominent part of the Lost world. But this is karma in the technically religious sense. Definition: the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences" (Mac dictionary). I'm a little confused by this but it works well with the dharma angles we've discussed before.
I've also heard (not sure if it's true) that "cimi" or "kimi" means "war" or "war god" in Mayan, but the first name "Martin" sometimes means "warlike" and is derived from the Roman god of war, Mars. Christopher means "Christ bearer" but this hardly fits (or does it?), but I believe they combined Martin and Christopher to make his first two initials M.C. in a nod to the actor who played Tom (aka Mr. Friendly), M.C. Gainey. Maybe not, but I don't see Keamy as a "Christ bearer."
Sun-Hwa Kwon and Jin-Soo Kwon:
I don't about this one. If Sun had Jin's middle name we've have a match: Sun Tzu. But alas... Could be a Raekwon the Chef reference but... I don't know. You decide. Looking at Jin's middle name written out explains why Sun always calls to him "Jin sushi." It's not sushi, it's "Jin-Soo she." At least that's one mystery solved.
Neil "Frogurt" Frogurt:
"Frogurt" means "enjoyable, flaming death" in ancient Mandarin Chinese.
Bernard and Rose:
These semi-expendable characters probably don't merit attaching significance to their names even though they merited a flashback episode. They perhaps have the most shadowy back story, and Bernard may be meant to rule not just The Island but maybe the entire world. Casting aside dentistry for a power grab always makes for great television. I believe the name "Rose" derives from a flower of some sort.
1000 apologizes Ricky! My intra-webs were down due to a horrendous storm/tornado watch last night in the Shreveport area.
ReplyDeleteIf Lost is anything like the Dark Tower series young Ben, much like young young Jake Chambers, will die in his world and travel to another parallel world. That would be so cool if he ended up in giant stone statue times to lead a ancient civilization!
Don't forget to check out the new poll.
Holdham is way to avant garde to intermingle with squares like Rasberry. He could be Jacob but somehow I doubt this. Jacob's power mustn't be so modern. Jacob seems like an ancient entity.
ReplyDeleteI dont think Ben is going to die.
ReplyDeleteThe island wont let him... course correction.
Jack will probably perform surgery and save him again. Or the island will heal him.
Then there will be a shit storm trying to find Sayid.
OR, Ben has been dead all this time.
I just keep thinking of Widmores comment "I know what you are boy", and the fact that the two of them cant kill each other.
I also dont think Oldham is Jacob, but he may be able to communicate with him.
I thought of him as being Dharma's Shaman.
The book young Ben gives Sayid is called A Separate Reality.
ReplyDeleteIts a nonfictional account of the authors experiences with an Indian Sorcerer, and his apprenticeship involved with perceiving energy directly as it flows through the universe, which he calls "Seeing", and it emphasizes plants being a key element into "seeing".
I thought the title may be a hint that there is another timeline that has been created, but now knowing what the book is about I dont think this is the case. I think Ben is or will become a "see'r" and Im sticking to my theory that he will become responsible for the birth problem on the island, possibly through this ability.
THIS IS RICKY'S E-MAIL COMMENT PASTED BY DAN!!
ReplyDeleteAlso, I have basically nothign to say abouot it except Yes!!! I was so glad Sayid smoked Ben. I'm sure that little fool isn't dead, but that was sweet. I thought Sayid was gonna crap out and not do it, but he did. It's on now.
So if Ben is dead, which is debatable at best, then perhaps that explains why the Dharma buildings are so run down and crappy when Sun and Lapidus meet Christian. Maybe they weren't occupied at all. Wait, that doesn't add up because Dharma would presumably still be there if Ben wouldn't have killed them. Dang. Another brilliant theory shot down by poor thought.
Oh, and Sayid was very Joker tonight. That crazy laugh when he was tied to the tree, then that shot of him kneeling in the road with his straggly hair in his face right before he smoked Ben. That was good stuff.
No, Ricky. I have the same questions about Ben's death. If Locke and that Ilana bounty hunter chick are in the present (2007, I guess), will they still be there after Ben wasn't around to herd them onto the plane? Will they ever have been on the Hydra Island at all? Leave it to Lost to throw a wrench in the timeline that big. I guess Sayid, Hurley, Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Juliet all will still be in the Dharma because they were there when the timeline changed.
ReplyDeleteI loved the LSD torture/interrogation. But why does Holdham (who played one of the Darrells on Newhart I think and in Blade Runner) live in that tent in the woods? No chance this psycho is Jacob is there?
I considered, knowing only the book title, that perhaps Christian will lead or has already led Frank and Sun into an "alternate reality" that exists without Ben. Maybe that is why everything is in ruins. Something occurred differently without Ben.
ReplyDeleteAlthough, Matt's explanation of the book's contents might make this theory debatable...
I think I enjoyed the LSD interrogation the most, too.
I'm thinking of two possibilities.
ReplyDeleteBen died and the timeline changed. Locke, Ilana, Caesar, and old Ben (not from out by the Dune Sea) are no longer on the Hydra Island because they never arrived. Ben didn't play his part in the crash of Oceanic 815. Same for Lapidus and Sun unless they already began Christian's journey. Jack, Sawyer, and crew remained in 1977 because they were there when the timeline shifted.
Or, Ben didn't die but Juliet (and maybe Jack) operate to save him. Maybe this is why Ben kiddie crushes on Juliet. Maybe this is why old Ben used Sayid for his purposes in revenge. (and maybe killed his wife).
I'm skeptical about Ben dying and being resurrected because then why would Jack have needed to remove cancer from him when he was older.
I would like to see Sayid and Alpert team up on some covert ops in the jungle!
That entire episode set up one thing in particular, Sayid is a killer.(making Sayid's slow shift from white tank top to black even more symbolic now...Dan, good call way back on this one)
ReplyDeleteIm guessing Sayid shooting Ben is one event that makes Ben, Ben. That needed to happen and Ben knew that in the future, thus making sure Sayid stays on his path of murder. What ever Happened, Happened.
If Ben is dead, that makes everything weve seen about him so far null and void, that would be pointless and a waste of time.
I think the island still needs Ben at this point in time and wont let him die.
But that does raise the question about the obvious difference in the time Sun and Lapidus are in... Im guessing a purge still happens but not quite the same way it did before, remember Hawkings description of course correction? If the guy with red shoes was warned about his death and he avoided being crushed by the construction work, he would later slip in the shower and break his neck. He is still gonna die it doesnt matter how. Same with Charlie, Desmond saw him die numerous different ways.
So I think major events still happen one way or another, but minor events can ripple changes through time.
But this does concern me that some past events now, never happened, and I dont like the possibility of being invested in a storyline that turns out to be obsolete. Unless there turns out to be a reason for multiple timelines and multiple probabilities.
-When Sayid kills that dude in Russia, when he walks out the building, there is Russian writing above the main door, it translates to "Oldham's Pharmaceuticals".
-Ham in the bible, sometimes referred to Old Ham, is one of Noahs sons. Bens dad even pronounces Oldham like Old-Ham.
And this dude wasnt just living in a tent, it was a teepee. After reading about A Separate Reality, that makes me lean more toward the fact that Oldham was a sort of Shaman for Dharma, he was out there to connect with nature and the energy of the island, away from technology... his record player was even an old crank style player.
Although I don't want Oldham (are we sure it's Oldham and not Holdham, I though they were saying Holdham) to end up being Jacob, I proposed that idea because of his anti-technology lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Sayid's wardrobe, in Season 1 he always wore the white tank top when he was seemingly good (other than his Sawyer torture). In Season 2 as this became more ambiguous, he wore a green, gray or tan one. In Season 3 as he seemed to move toward the dark side, he always wore a black tank top. I only noticed this because he and Ana Lucia were the only ones who never seemed to change clothes. So I wonder if him wearing purple in the last episode is some sort of reference to royalty.
Until recently "Sayid" was used in Islamic cultures as a title and not a name. It was reserved for descendants of the prophet Muhammad. Perhaps this is the royalty connection.
Its definitely Oldham, its stitched on his Dharma jumper.
ReplyDeleteI hope he isnt Jacob either, but there seems to be a connection. Maybe he can communicate with him.
Keeping in line with him being a Shaman... this would mean hes in tune with the spirit world. Seems like hes out there experimenting with LSD, so maybe hes come across Jacob during a spirit journey, and maybe after his encounter he then moved out into the jungle in the teepee... following Jacobs anti-tech beliefs.
I wonder if Oldham is using the same substance that Locke used to dose Boone in Season 1 and that he used in Season 3 to get "Further Instructions" in his sweat lodge. That is, I wonder if Oldham is using chemicals native to The Island or if he's just making acid with materials imported from the real world.
ReplyDeleteIsn't Jacob a propriety of the Hostiles in 1977? Why would Jacob be talking to Oldham? He'd hate Dharma and all of its experimental scientific nonsense. I don't think he'd be wiling to communicate with Oldham.
ReplyDeleteI think I agree with the theory that Ben is not dead and Juliette does operate on him and this is when he becomes attached to her. Ben cannot die. Not according to all that we have been presented thus far. Although that means that maybe the island resurrects him as it has Locke. Another "leader" has been resurrected?
ReplyDeleteSomething that Dan and I spoke about a while back just clicked in my head. We discussed why Ethan would follow Ben in the future if Ben was the one to kill all the Dharma Initiative. I have a theory. What if Amy was with her husband and the hostiles because Amy wanted to become one of the hostiles or already is at this point. That means that Amy is possibly a spy for the hostiles. This would explain why Ethan was a follower of Ben's in the future.
I still don't think Ben will be resurrected a la Christian or Locke because a resurrected dead man probably wouldn't need spinal surgery in 2004. My sister pointed that out when I mentioned this theory.
ReplyDeleteGood point, Ricky, about Oldham. Jacob might not talk to Oldham because he has sided with the Others. But Locke wasn't technically an Other when he first "spoke" with Jacob. But he was already friendly with the Others I guess.
I like you theory, Haley, about Amy being a spy or at least wanting to join the Others. Of course, I was thinking that maybe Ethan was off The Island during the Purge and Ben fed him some lie about what happened. But yes, why would Amy and her first husband have gone for what looked like a picnic outside the Dharma zone and risked violating the truce unless they were looking to defect? Why would you be so stupid unless you wanted them to find you? It looked like it backfired though.
Other support comes from her first husband's name and his Egyptian anhk. Paul (originally Saul) was converted to Christianity when he saw a blinding light on the road to Damascus. Maybe the name Paul references a conversion to the Others. And because we've tied the Others possibly to Egyptian cultures, maybe his wearing that symbol also points to this conversion.
So, Haley, aren't you leaving for The Island yourself on Flight 316 soon?
ReplyDeleteI had lunch with my mother today and we were discussing the upcoming trip to Hawaii at the end of April. In the middle of conversation she says, "Oh, and don't take any of the rocks." I hadn't really planned on it but decided to entertain her and ask her why. She began to tell me about island superstition...
ReplyDeleteIn Hawaii you are never suppose to take any of the rocks found on the beach, you are never suppose to pick them up. Apparently, it is their belief that the rocks are people's souls. The souls of the people that did not go to Black Rock. In Hawaiian folklore there is a "rumbling hill" called Pu'u Keka'a, also known as Black Rock. It divides the sandy beaches into two sections and is the birthplace of Kaululaau, son of the King Keka'alaneo, the trickster-hero who defeated the ghosts and made that island a place where humans could live.
Black Rock, a sacred place, is said to be the "leaping place of the soul." Hawaiians believe that the soul of a dying person leaves his body and wonders about as the transition is made from this world into the next. If all of the person's worldly obligations have been fulfilled, his soul goes to Black Rock. Once there, the soul is taken by minor gods to another realm. At that moment physical death comes to the person's body. Every island has at least one leaping-off place for the soul. One source says the area was once a heiau and old burial grounds.
In history, several bloody battles were fought in the area around Black Rock. Human bones covered the sand, "as if thousands of people died there." (Anatomy students used to go there to find skeletons to study.) There is a strange phenomena connected with the hill. People who went to the hill alone died mysteriously.
Perhaps there is more to the Black Rock than previously believed...
Who could be considered a minor god?
Also Oldham can't be Jacob. Locke tells Richard Jacob sent him when they are talking in 1952, so no way Oldham can be Jacob if he is still Oldham in 1977.
ReplyDeleteI did a little research on the names of Hawaiian gods to see if there were any obvious parallels, but nothing jumped out at me. I suppose I could read about their roles or functions, but I'm too lazy. If anyone finds anything, be sure to post it. Also, when I was in Hawaii, I didn't even see any black beaches much less have the opportunity to steal someone's soul. Maybe I was on the wrong island. One thing I learned there was that pineapples grow on the ground. i had no idea. i thought they grew in trees.
Pineapples on the ground... Didn't know that either.
ReplyDeleteSo, Haley, if the souls do not leap to heaven from the black rock, are they left to linger on the island? This might explain smoke monster Smokey. It's always seemed to take people's souls and steal bodies and stuff. Plus, most who have tangled with Smokey alone were killed (it didn't kill Eko the first time when Charlie was there) like Eko, Montand, the pilot (who else..). That would relate to the Hawaiian black rock and not going alone.
I'll let you research those Hawaiian god connections. I barely can spell Hawaii. That's like a sudden-death spelling bee overtime!
Hey, Morgan can you add an answer to the poll?
ReplyDelete"Ben's not really dead." I'm leaning more toward that because I think Sayid will leave a lasting impression on Ben, in a sense creating the same monster he hoped to stop. Ben's memory of Sayid would make him all the better to use and manipulate.
Plus, just imagine they never see each other again until 2004 and then what happens? Sayid throws him a prison cell and tortures him, the whole time with Ben remembering when this guy shot him and plotting some grand revenge scheme. I think Ben had Sayid's wife killed in 2005 to force him to work for him. If you remember, Ben just told him like "Hey, Sayid. This guy in this picture killed your girl. Look here's his picture." And he apparently was already hanging out in Iraq, probably because Ben told him to.
I don't think you can add an answer. Next episode or whenever we see Ben again/or not the answer will be obvious.
ReplyDeleteCheck this ultimate nerd gear out:
http://www.nikkoamerica.com/nhe/dvd_projector_video.html
Good theory Haley about Amy defecting... that would be cool. I was wondering the same thing about Ethan.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the seemingly alternate future that Sun and crew are now in. What if the "Separate Reality", or alternate timeline, is the story that weve already been shown? Everything weve already seen with the island and the people involved is a departure from how events are really supposed to occur. Now we are being shown what IS supposed to happen.
Oh, and I got internet at home!
http://www.nikkoamerica.com/nhe/dvd_projector_video.html
ReplyDeleteYeah, I voted that Kate played all three. She will. You'll see. She'll be making out with Juliet at the garage before long, and then she'll have them all in her grasp.
ReplyDeleteDan, I think you should take over Admin of this blog. What do you think? I never have the time to put an in depth comment up. I rather like reading other comments. They flow in a linear narrative that is engaging and spot on...usually.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if you take over control of the blog, then there may be a chance that Waller will chime in. His resistance to the creation of this blog by a part-time SherLost Holmes type P.I. weighs heavily on my boyish shoulders.
On Wallers quietude:
If he were a Mime I'd never let him out of my box!
LOL! I know that you are not supposed to laugh at your own jokes but that was a good one because it was pertinent to his absence. One that is a little less pertinent would be: If Waller wer a soap dispenser I'd pump him in the bathroom!
ReplyDeleteLOL!
If you don't want to do it anymore, I'll do it. But you've done a really good job. Are you sure?
ReplyDeleteUnless someone else really wants to do it, I'll do it. Matt? Ricky? Either of you interested?
Ive got no problems taking over, now that I have the intraweb at home.
ReplyDeleteLet me know how to access everything to make changes when I need to.
UPDATE!Remaining Episode Titles:
ReplyDeleteEpisode 15 title has been released:
Ep:11 Whatever Happened, Happened
Ep:12 Dead Is Dead
Ep:13 Some Like It Hoth
Ep:14 The Variable
Ep:15 Follow the Leader
Ep:16 The Incident pt.1
Ep:17 The Incident pt.2
This is a little off point and markedly irrelevant at this point in the story line, but I was just watching Greatest Hits from Season 3. Is that girl that Charlie saves outside of the Tube station in London Nadia? Should I know that already if it is? That's a good episode. I'm gonna make a list of the 5 best moments of my life. And one of them is going to be the time I popped popcorn with my cell phone--in your face Brewer.
ReplyDeleteyeah that's Nadia, and yeah you should know that.
ReplyDeletewell, that may be an easy miss, they never say it out right, but its definitely her.